WIRED25: Apple's Jony Ive in Conversation with Anna Wintour

(upbeat techno music)

So, before we start, I'd just like to say

a personal word about Jony.

Before meeting him, I knew only the myth of his success.

He was said to be a mysterious semi-reclusive genius.

On meeting him, I was surprised to find

what he was really like; a mysterious semi-reclusive

genius who loves his family, photography, and cars.

And of course, Apple. I think there is no designer

around here today whose soul is more beautifully

and idiosyncratically tangled up in the products

all of us use hour to hour, maybe minute to minute,

every single day.

From the iPhones that some people here

are checking right now, to the fashion industry's

favorite watch--this is major product placement--

Jony's genius is always with us everywhere,

if only on vibrate mode.

And yet, as anyone who knows him well will tell you,

Jony is also not always with us,

perhaps lost in his own imagination.

It came as no surprise to me to hear a few weeks back,

that the Cambridge Union Society was awarding Jony

the Steven Hawking Fellowship for his work in technology.

As Professor Hawking did, Jony lives most fully

in his own mind. But like the professor,

he is assembled around him, a lifetime worth of friends.

I feel very lucky to count myself in some small way

within the crowd of people who has got to know Jony

and his magical mind up close.

But for all his extraordinary work,

he still shines brightest in person.

And that's why we're all so lucky to

have him with us this morning.

Now Jony, we are off to the races.

I have six questions that need to be covered

in seventeen minutes and brevity is not your strongest suit.

(laughing)

So I'm gonna to start with this one:

First there were iPhones and now there is iPhone addiction.

So how do you feel about that? Guilty? Responsible?

Is the world too connected?

Actually, first of all, I'd just like to say

congratulations to Wyatt. What a remarkable achievement.

I really do feel honored to be here

at such an important time.

To your question. I think it's good to be connected.

The real issue is what you do with that connection.

I think we ... I think the nature of innovating

is that you cannot predict all the consequences.

In my experience, there have been surprising consequences.

Some fabulous, and some less so.

I've always felt that at the end of a project,

there are two products. There is the thing,

whether it's a service or a product that you ship.

But arguably, I think the most

important one is what you have learnt.

And so, I think if we see this as an organic process,

I'm just thinking of your comment on my brevity,

(crowd laughs)

Something that is new, I think the important thing

is that you continue to ponder

and work on what you have learned.

So we have been doing a lot of work

in terms of not only understanding

how long you use a device, but how you're using it.

With screen time, I'm sure some of you

are familiar with that.

I actually don't think that is the challenge.

What I'm more concerned about,

and it's something that I remember noticing at art school,

which is, the way our environment and context

affects the way that we relate to each other.

So I think when you're face to face with somebody,

there's a whole set of behaviors that are acceptable.

I think the thing that made me think about this was,

I noticed how people's behavior deteriorated

when they were behind the wheel of a car.

And people were generally ruder and less polite.

Because there were two barriers.

There was speed and then there was some glass.

I think the more you remove people

I think communication can become very transactional,

and perhaps not the kindest.

So that's why we've been doing so much work

trying to work on nuance.

Trying to figure out ways of

making things just less transactional.

Like, the Emojis, just what we've been doing in messaging

to try and restore some humanity in the way we connect.

And reduce the guilt factor a little bit.

Okay, so, recently many of our tech companies

from Facebook to Twitter have been navigating

their role in the new media landscape.

Sometimes with high stakes and quite a bit of criticism.

What's your sense of tech civic responsibilities?

Well, I think that we've been ...

At Apple, we've been doing this for a while.

We've had I think a number of ideas.

We don't see our responsibility ending

when a product is shipped.

I think most importantly, I think we see ...

we learn an awful lot

that informs and influences what we do next.

I think there's no ambiguity at all for us.

I think we feel very strongly that we have

a moral and a civic responsibility.

I think one of the things that's important

in this phase is, and I often go back to this,

is why you're doing what you're doing.

I think probably the simplest way of

translating that into the corporate space,

is what is your business model?

But the reason we're doing what we're doing

is, actually, Steve said, I actually thought it was

one of the most succinct and poetic

and really beautiful things to say,

that we make something to try and express

our appreciation for the species, for humanity.

He said that in 32 seconds and

I would take about half an hour.

I think that's exactly why we do what we do.

That sense of saying thank you

and appreciating people that you'll probably never meet.

Right, right. So why is Apple so secretive?

(laughing)

I actually think it would be bizarre not to be.

I don't know many creatives who want to talk about

what they're doing when they're halfway through it.

Really? You and I obviously know very different people.

(laughing)

I know lots of PR departments who want to talk about

something that was being worked on.

I've been doing this long enough where

I actually feel a responsibility to

not confuse or add more noise about

what's being worked on because I know

that sometimes it doesn't work out.

I think it's just in our nature

when we're working on a difficult problem

and so many of the problems

we're working on right now are so complex.

It just seems rather odd to be

telling everybody what you're doing.

What I want to know is, when people going into that

amazing design room that you work in

and all the covers are on the tables

has anyone ever lifted that cover up and looked?

Yes, some of the designers.

So, Jony, what would you have done

in 1990 if Apple had gone out of business?

I was working in London as an independent designer

and one of my clients was Apple.

Apple persuaded me to move from London here.

I think Apple's values ... of course we make mistakes,

but I think our ...

those values are very particular

and very special, which is a predictably convoluted

way of saying I don't know.

(laughing)

Fair enough.

I know I would be designing and I would be making.

Well then let me ask you another question.

You've been doing this a long time,

and I'm just curious to know,

do you feel you're reaching the end of the road,

might you go into politics, or go off on that boat

that we talk about all the time?

Or will you just be doing this for another 25 years?

It's strange. I guess we learn at different rates,

and I've talked about this before.

I think there is something very particular

and very special and very precious

when you learn in community.

I actually feel that my learning, our learning,

has actually increased significantly so.

So I'm actually feeling quite sort of antsy

feeling like there's an awful lot to do

and and awful lot of opportunity.

Particularly in the area of

different expertise collaborating together.

So, the design team, we've been a little dislocated.

We've just moved into Apple Park.

It's absolutely without precedent,

the different expertise that

we've actually gathered into one studio.

We have font designers sat next to graphic designers

next to industrial designers next to haptic experts

next to colorists, and it goes on and on.

And the energy, the vitality, and

that sense of opportunity ...

And community

It's extraordinary and is very exciting.

A little heady because you're trying to resolve,

and what the opportunities are to pursue.

You've talked a lot about how Steve Jobs protected you

and guided you a lot of time without you knowing.

I'm wondering, do you feel the same mentorship role

for others within the company without them knowing?

Is that something that you? ...

It's interesting, Anna and I were just talking

about the creative process, and I still think it's

so remarkable that ideas that can become so powerful

and so literally world-changing.

But those same ideas at the beginning

are shockingly fragile.

I think the creative process doesn't naturally

or easily sit in a large group of people.

I do think that is one of my responsibilities.

I feel that keenly.

It's a complex and nuanced process.

Even the framing, even the way we understand problems.

It's shocking that people so often forget

that the way we frame a problem is

as creative a part of the process as

when you're actually drawing and making things.

Right, right. So I want to read one of your

favorite quotes, which is from Man and Superman

by George Bernard Shaw. And the quote is:

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world,

the unreasonable one persists in trying to

adapt the world to himself.

Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

So obviously, you Jony, are an unreasonable man.

Is that? So, I'm just curious to know,

with the theme of the next 25 at Wired,

who is the next unreasonable man or woman?

Who is the next rising star in tech in your opinion?

I think there are many. But somebody that I have just

tremendous admiration for and somebody

I've learnt from is Evan Sharpe at Pinterest.

And, I think at one level, one of the reasons

I hold him with the regard that I do

is just the way he looks at the world.

I think that's exactly what that quote is about.

It's about your relationship with knowledge,

with dogma, with opportunity.

I think when we're looking to hire people

in the design team, I think what we're most interested in

and most keenly focused on is how people look at the world.

Many of us see the same physical thing.

It's then what happens between seeing something physical

and how that is eventually perceived.

And what affects your perception, I think,

are a whole range of issues.

It can just be your personal journey through life,

it can be issues of culture.

But, I've always felt, I think one of the most important

attributes or traits of a creative team,

of a creative individual, is being curious and inquisitive.

Constantly. With a real ferocious appetite for learning

and being comfortable, and being surprised,

and excited when you're surprised

that you've learned something new.

And what was the last thing new that you learnt?

Um, gosh that's a good question.

It wasn't on the list!

(laughing)

Probably something unbelievably mundane.

But just the detail about how we connect glass ...

I mean, it's a really boring answer.

(laughing)

But how we can connect glass to a structural frame.

But we've been doing this for a long time

and we're still surprised, and we're still learning so much.

But I think if you lose that childlike excitement,

I think then probably it's time to do something else.

Are you at that point?

Oh, goodness no.

(laughing)

So, you and I were talking about

the new retail experience that you've

just recently opened in Milan.

It was very interesting to me because I feel that

a lot of bricks and mortar retail right now

are really struggling with what

the future of retail could be.

I'd be really interested if you could tell us your vision

of what retail would be say in five years

when your boys are now running the world,

which they will be.

Anna and I were talking about yesterday

about what retail should be.

I think one of the things we've been feeling very strongly

is that we do have a civic responsibility

to not just create volumes where you can have a transaction.

And these spaces, our stores, are places where people meet.

They're places where you can come to learn.

But I think we've also actually extended

our sense of what those places are

to now include those areas around them.

So the store in Milan that Anna's referring to,

a lot of our work wasn't actually the store

where you go and look at products and go to them,

but it was the plaza.

We put an awful lot of energy into the plaza

to try and create a space for community,

a space for people to come and meet.

We have one minute left.

I think with the times we're living in,

it's obviously to many of us deeply upsetting.

I just want to ask you a personal question.

What is it that keeps you up at night?

You have two extraordinary young boys.

You must be so worried about the environment.

Many other things that are going on in the world.

What is the thing that is

most deeply concerning to you right now?

Sadly, it's a rather long list at the moment.

I think divisiveness, division is

what I find really very sad.

I moved to the US in '92 for two reasons.

I loved Apple, and I loved the US.

I migrated with an incredible excitement

because I love that sense of optimism

that I really thought was tangible, was material.

I mean, particularly in this area where

it was okay to try things,

and failure wasn't then the opening gambit

for tremendous criticism and then division.

I think good things come from community,

from collaboration.

I think much less good stuff comes from division.

True. Jony, thank you. Thank you all for having us!

We're absolutely on time!

(applause)